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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
647
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 21:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:X'ret wrote:3min (BURST DAMAGE) quick check on Sisi, without comments: RLML Cerberus So with good skills it even fails to kill NPC BS, what to speak of properly fitted player cruiser ![Lol](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png)
You are whining that a cruiser fitted with ANTI-FRIG weapons has a hard time against a BS? Even if it is an NPC BS....really?! ![Shocked](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png)
Most of the other whiners here seem to be crying that their (possibly OP) anti-frig murderer is now actually gonna have to think about engaging that lone AF or 2-3 man frig gang.....Aw boo-******-hoo! a single cruiser should have to think about engaging those enemies. That is what balance is all about. A couple of caracals with the new RLML will still smash a moderately size frig gang easily. Sounds like a lot of you leet cruiser pvp'er need to actually learn how to fly. ![Twisted](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_twisted.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
647
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 21:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Malcanis wrote:Sounds like Caracals and AFs are fairly well balanced then.
PS did the analysis include drone damage? So a caracal fit specifically to kill frigates, can kill one frigate, assuming he lucks out with ammo selection, and the AF is not particularly tanky, and the af isnt linked is totally alone, and this seems well balanced? Note that the AF fits were not specifically designed to kill cruisers. Analysis did not include drone damage, and with the exception of 1 case where an enyo lived in like 10% hull, I doubt it would make a difference. Caracal has only 2 drones, and afs can kill drones quite easily.
AF's are comparably to T1 cruisers in term of power. Both in damage output and tank on a lot of fits. so yeah if this 1v1 can go either way yes that is balanced.
That RLML caracal will still totally wipe the floor with T1 frigs.
Get over it. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
649
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 22:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well after plugging the new RLML stats into my fave bellicose fit all I can say is bring it on! ![Twisted](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_twisted.png)
My ship was good before at killing T1 frigs. Now it's gonna go nuts. It is fast enough that I can control the battlespace while reloading my launchers and ASB while still holding point etc. YAR!!! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
649
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 23:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
LOL I'm am truely surprised by how many people are so butthurt that they will no longer be able WTFBBPWN frig gangs with a single RLML cruiser....
Aw go cry a river somewhere else. Name another frig killing cruiser that uses turrets that are as effective as RLML ones? There aren't simple as that. Medium sized turrets have majore drawback when attacking small ship classes. The new RLML will still have good damage application to smaller ship but now you will have to think tactically rather than just pushing keep at range and F1.
Adapt or die!
Actually no don't adapt and die lots more ![Twisted](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_twisted.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
649
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 23:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Chessur wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:LOL I'm am truely surprised by how many people are so butthurt that they will no longer be able WTFBBPWN frig gangs with a single RLML cruiser.... Aw go cry a river somewhere else. Name another frig killing cruiser that uses turrets that are as effective as RLML ones? There aren't simple as that. Medium sized turrets have majore drawback when attacking small ship classes. The new RLML will still have good damage application to smaller ship but now you will have to think tactically rather than just pushing keep at range and F1. Adapt or die! Actually no don't adapt and die lots more ![Twisted](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_twisted.png) Yah.... How about, you are wrong. Nomen, Zealot, Rail diemos, Rail thorax, Rail Exq Navy, Oracle, Cynabal, Omen, Ishtar, Navy Vexor All of those ships destroy light tackle.
Go away chessur this is a conversation for grown ups.
All of the above ships quoted can be killed by a cookie cutter rifter. (yes even after the 'nerfs') if he has a good warp in.
All you have actually done is reinforced that the RLML caracal will have to flown with similiar tactical thought as other ships than can kill frigs. Currently these ships are good at killing frig because of the tactics needed not because the weapon system is good at killing frigs. After the changes the RLML carcals et all will have to start tactical thinking rather than just plow into that frig gang and press F1 and farm km's. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
649
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 00:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chessur wrote:
Confirming that, on the zealot / Nomen in particular- Medium pulse guns with 53+ Optimal (Scorch), + 450 / 500 DPS are not weapons designed to slaughter frigs?
What game are you playing?
LOL you lot are so wound up it is way to temping to troll the crap out of you. ![P](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_p.png)
As for those stats...meh they would mean nothing if they got the drop on you. 53km+ optimal & 450+ dps mean nothing if you can't hit your target orbiting at 3-5kms. (and at those ranges your nomen./zealot is dead.)
Once again you lot have forgotten to simple bit of basic advice that I have given time and again.
This is Player v Player we are talking about. Not ship fit v ship fit... not everyone flys linked, boosted, implated in PvP.
seriously you lot need to get over yourselves. This change will make SFA impact on the state of small gang/solo pvp where the RLML ships generally operate in the long term. RLML were used to kill frig long before they got buffed. They just became the FOTM that is all. Something else will step up for FTOM and the players who wknow will still kill **** with RLML.
Lighten up it's just a friggin game. ![Lol](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
649
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 00:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Leokokim wrote:[quote=Taoist Dragon
As for those stats...meh they would mean nothing if they got the drop on you. 53km+ optimal & 450+ dps mean nothing if you can't hit your target orbiting at 3-5kms. (and at those ranges your nomen./zealot is dead.)
Good luck getting a 0-5k drop on something that can fly over 3k m/s. Quite impossible tbh
Yeah like a cynabal has never been killed by an AB frig before. Duh! have you lot only been playing for a year?!
Hell THE counter to fast mwd cruisers were AB/SCRAM/WEB frigs for years! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
650
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:Leokokim wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:
As for those stats...meh they would mean nothing if they got the drop on you. 53km+ optimal & 450+ dps mean nothing if you can't hit your target orbiting at 3-5kms. (and at those ranges your nomen./zealot is dead.)
Good luck getting a 0-5k drop on something that can fly over 3k m/s. Quite impossible tbh Yeah like a cynabal has never been killed by an AB frig before. Duh! have you lot only been playing for a year?! Hell THE counter to fast mwd cruisers were AB/SCRAM/WEB frigs for years! An AB/SCRAM/WEB frig counters a MWD Cruiser how?
Oh boy!
Do you really think that what you do on grid affects the fight more than what you do off grid BEFORE you engage?! Hmmm you might need to think on that one a bit I reckon. ![Lol](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
650
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 02:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:Oh boy! Do you really think that what you do on grid affects the fight more than what you do off grid BEFORE you engage?! Hmmm you might need to think on that one a bit I reckon. ![Lol](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png) Rather than being smug while saying nothing of substance how about you actually explain how an AB using frig tackler is a counter to a MWD using long range cruiser. I don't know what you're doing off grid that magically makes that a good matchup, so please tell me.
Ok here goes.
If you just blindly warp to 0 every time you are going for a tackle you will die to the majority of cruisers if they have any situational awareness about them.
The HARD tackle of AB/Scram/Web frig is not about catching the cruiser once on grid as you wont be able to. The MWD cruiser will generally be faster and with blap you to space dust. It is all about setting up the fight so you start within OH scram range by using the various warp techniques of 'fishing' to either drop right on top of the cruiser or get them to land on you.
A frig will lock and scram a cruiser way long before it can pull range etc in you start at point blank range. It is all about how you SETUP the fight rather than blindly charge head first into it. FW plex are an excellent example of this being put into practice.
Once you are locked down, scrammed and webbed the frig litterally run rings around you and takes you down (all be it rather slowely sometimes) what the RLML on cruisers do is allow you to effectively engage any frig as long at it is in range (27+km or summit) whereas a turret cruiser has to be more careful and setup the fight in his favour because medium sized turrets do jack squat to an tight orbiting frig (even 6-7km orbits) as the angular velocity is too high for them to track it. and in this size orbit a small neut won't reach and if fitte with a medium neut a smal nos on the frig can sort that out. And unless your drones are bonussed a frig will eat them easily while still holding you down.
The reason cruisers CAN be really good at killing frigs is players like Chessur know how to setup the fights in their favour (even though I'll still give him **** about being a boostes, implanted, nano ***) to make sure that a frig doesn't land right on top of them.
These changes allow you to 'front load' rapid damage them have to deal with slow reloads etc. pretty muhc how arti alpha works. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
650
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 03:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:
In both cases, I felt like I was having to work/think a lot harder in order to get the job done, and having to pay attention to a lot of different things simultaneously.
Oh no! you have to actually think now when using missiles?!?!
Missiles have always been the 'easy' weapon system to use.
Are you in range? - check
Press F1.
Wait for explosion.
Now you actually have to think about what you are doing. This is a good thing IMO bring it more in line with turrets. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
|
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
650
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 03:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
You don't explain how you are arriving point blank range versus a MWD cruiser. Seeing as that is the foundation of your argument you might want to explain how on earth you think you can reliably land that close to a kiting cruiser unless it's already tackled.
Oh FFS!
You warp around the system at different ranges and hope the other guy is a moron so you can land on him and muck up his great plan for being a frig killer.
It is really that simple. Look at some of the 'old time' pvp blogs. They explain in great detail various techniques used when 'out fishin' in a frigate.
If you don't understand this then really there is not much I can do to enlighten you.
Really the playersbase who post nowadays has become such a group of close minded whiners!
I for one will look forward to working with the new RLML and seeing what they can and can't do both from a target and attacker point of view. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
650
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 03:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:Chris Winter wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:Quote:
In both cases, I felt like I was having to work/think a lot harder in order to get the job done, and having to pay attention to a lot of different things simultaneously.
Oh no! you have to actually think now when using missiles?!?! Missiles have always been the 'easy' weapon system to use. Are you in range? - check Press F1. Wait for explosion. Now you actually have to think about what you are doing. This is a good thing IMO bring it more in line with turrets. You must've missed the part where I said that if I'm going to have to think, I might as well be using turrets and doing more damage. It doesn't bring it in line with turrets, since it doesn't do as much damage as turrets. In PVE turrets require a little bit of maneuvering, not the micromanagement of volleys and cooldown timers. I'm really starting to think you are a troll with the kinds of responses you are littering this thread with.
The PVE part is irrelivent. Missiles are becomeing more 'complicated' and 'different' than missiles. This is a good thing IMO. Missiles SHOULD required tactical thinking rather than just press F1 and wait for explosion.
As for Trolling. yeah I do cos it is easy with with majority of whiney kneckbeards on these forums nowadays. ![P](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_p.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
650
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 05:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
You warp around and hope the other guy is an idiot. Got it. Fool proof plan.
Once again demstrateing to lvl of competance in todays players. ![Shocked](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png)
It is about trying to force an engagement on YOUR terms not theirs duh! If you can't figure this out then I suggest you just follow your Fc and press F1 when he tell you ok.
What I want to know is when do we get a missle Naga that can fit rapid heavys!!! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
653
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 08:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Brib Vogt wrote:Was playing around with the rlml on a cerberus against a rocket fitted t2 vengeance. every time it was close to structure the cerb needed to reload. That should not happen, that a hac can't beat an AF.
Same test with raven vs said cerberus. Without overheat raven couldn't kill cerb.
Without the fitting of said ship and a clear battle report of how this was tested these type of arguments are exactly what Rise was referring to as basically crap arguments against the changes.
Now if you want to get them to take you seriously then post up what fits your were using, what characters/skills etc and actually quote figure from a combat log that you can send to Rise to back up your findings. Do this and i can guarantee a much better chance at getting CCP to listen to you. Otherwise you are just whining that your favorite toy is different and you don't like it. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
663
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 19:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Brib Vogt wrote: I used a pvp dual anc/small rep fitted all V vengeance against a dual ASB close to all V Cerberus. Besides the fact that this PVP event would to lead only to both fractions to warp away my vengeance dominated the cerberus. And this was without the use of a faction repper i use on TQ. And i am not whining, because i couldn't care less. Never used the damn rapid launcher. I only have them on V because i like to fly destroyers and frigates with LMs.
It was a staged fight with a friend and no will not post fitting details and skills because it is not necessary to do that to see that if a ship survives one magazine of LMs it will survive all the following. --> crap
Ok starting an argument with a claification that it's not a realistic scenario is a argument 101 fail. You have just stopped any credibility for your argument before you try to build it up.
And without the actuall fits then how can anyone reading your post investigate any numbers/results you are quoting to see if it is actually possible. Once again destroying any case you have built up.
Also you said it yourself, you don't use the module so your argument is invalid and you are just trying to shitstir the people who do use them regularly. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
663
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 19:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:Ok, I did some tests with HAM dps and here are my results. ... ... PS : I can't wait to see what naysayers will say now. :-) That you don't have a clue, what else? Take Omen for example, add a frigate and see what happens if you compare graphs with Caracal. Properly piloted Omen will do full damage to both and your HAM Caracal will have a hard time dealing even with T1 frig, what to speak of T2. Now, where goes your damage when we add all those ships with role bonuses, having 50% reduced MWD sig radius penalty - could you do your Pyfa thingy for them too?
PAF! I have chased load of omens out of fw plexing in my rifters FFS! Cos the target thought 'I'm an omen I'll murder a rifter!' Then suddenly they can't hit me worth a dam and his drones are dead. Then I usually burn out a module or two that makes it a draw and we warp off. RLM cruiser however is a completely different setup and the only other cruiser setup apart from bonused drone boat that I am wary of engaging in a frigate.
And no I'm not an omen hater, I actually really like the ship but really people need to stop overstating how good these cruisers are at taking out small/fast frigs. It is the player who know what he is doing that can do that not the ship itself apart from RLML ships. Currently they just press F1 and watch the frig explode. and then they go and do the same thing to crusiers as they apply 100% of their damage in 99.99% of cases to a cruiser regardless of what the cruiser tries to do.
The new version will still see a RLML murder the typical frig but won't be able to scale the results up to a target the weapons were NOT designed to take on. And HAM Caracal is one of the best RLML carcal killers out there. Seen it many mnay times in FW. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
663
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote: PAF! I have chased load of omens out of fw plexing in my rifters FFS! Cos the target thought 'I'm an omen I'll murder a rifter!' Then suddenly they can't hit me worth a dam and his drones are dead. Then I usually burn out a module or two that makes it a draw and we warp off. RLM cruiser however is a completely different setup and the only other cruiser setup apart from bonused drone boat that I am wary of engaging in a frigate.
And no I'm not an omen hater, I actually really like the ship but really people need to stop overstating how good these cruisers are at taking out small/fast frigs. It is the player who know what he is doing that can do that not the ship itself apart from RLML ships. Currently they just press F1 and watch the frig explode. and then they go and do the same thing to crusiers as they apply 100% of their damage in 99.99% of cases to a cruiser regardless of what the cruiser tries to do.
The new version will still see a RLML murder the typical frig but won't be able to scale the results up to a target the weapons were NOT designed to take on. And HAM Caracal is one of the best RLML carcal killers out there. Seen it many mnay times in FW.
Your point being..? and 2. What missile system remains to fight cruisers?
Well I guess I need to highlight things more clearly for todays players eh?
The HVM and HAM work fine for killing cruisers. The new RLML will work fine for killing frigs/dessies.
Now for the terminally stoopid among you (you probably don't know who you are but I won't name names) here's a tip.
Missile based cruisers change the weapons to attack different sized targets, HVM & HAM for medium+ sized targets. RLML for small sized targets. These weapons are pretty good at applying damage to their intended targets.
Whereas medium turreted ship need to employ tactics/manual flying to enable them to hit small targets comfortably. No yes a turret cruiser can fit small guns to kill small targets but apart from a few noted example this generally completely gimps said fit.
The current RLML overlap too much into the realm of HVM/HAM performance, similar in the way HVM used to way outshine HAM before they were balanced. The new system will still allow RLML to fullfil the role of anti-frig but also making the choice to fit then a bit more meaningful.
After the changes a long T1 frig will still need balls of steel to attack a RLML cruiser. But a gang can more comfortably engage in a similar mannar to how thay can engage turret based ships. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
663
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:[ Of course, they could always simply alter the "Change Ammo" mechanic... which is what they have already said they are going to do.![Smile](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile.png) . "Hey guys we are going to rework laser turrets - we are increasing cap use 10-fold, but in a few patches we are going to be reworking the bonuses on amarr ships to accommodate this increased cap use)" This makes sense to you?
Now try and sensible less whiney argument rather than a childlike one please. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
665
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:
The HVM and HAM work fine for killing cruisers. .
Just out of curiosity, when is the last time you have killed a cruiser, with say, fewer than 4 people and/or with anyone in your fleet using hmls? When was the last time you flew something other than a frigate or destroyer? Edit: Ive gone back 6 months so far and I cant find one, but maybe I missed one?
Last time in something other than a frig/dessy........hmmm try last night :) This would ahve worked much better with the new RLML by the way.
Arbi fit with RLML (Oh MY!)
Last crusier kill with less then 4 people ok...last month
Stabber wandering around
Oh and a cruiser fight where there were less than 3 of us OMG!!
Cruiser fight in FW
ADmittedly I haven't used HVM in a long time in PVP as I mainly use them in pve grinding in a drake. which works fine BTW.
I think you need to check up on your searching skills.
Ans as I have repeatedly said on these forums. Blagging a KB is quite possibly the worst way to prove a point and just ruins any credibility you may build up with well thought out arguments. But hey you can go and try and way your epeen around more if you like. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
665
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: To be perfectly frank it's not that high a priority. It needs to be done, but the way these encounters usually play out is you don't switch missiles types in the middle of combat. Most pilots would rather take longer to kill the target with not - so - ideal ammo types than stop firing altogether and swap to a better ammo..
![Shocked](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png) You are constantly swapping ammo in a fight, between damage types, between t2/faction, and into/out of fofs when you get jammed or damped. (Or you should be anyway)
Constantly swapping ammo types just dropps your dps down to abysmal figures...the only time you should be swapping is if you get a new target that is an effective counter fit to your desired weapons or are jammed/damped then you swap to FOF. Constant swapping will just ruin any perceived increase in damage you get from hitting resist holes that is why it is still 95% of the time to use kinetic missiles on the kinetic bonused caldari hulls...![Roll](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
|
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
666
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote: The HVM and HAM work fine for killing cruisers.
Ranger 1 wrote: To be perfectly frank it's not that high a priority. It needs to be done, but the way these encounters usually play out is you don't switch missiles types in the middle of combat.
![Shocked](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png) I refuse to believe you two are serious. Have fun trolling. I don't know Taoist Dragon, so I can't comment for him. I will say that I have never had a problem killing cruisers quickly and efficiently with either HVM or HAM... or any other appropriate weapons system for that matter.
Killing cruiser with HVM/HAM is fine and always has been TBH. (well it used to be too easy with the OP HVM) and I I see some anti frig cruisers wandering around I'll pretty much always swap to cruiser killing mode with HAM/HVM (if I'm in the mood to fly caldari that is.) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
666
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote: The HVM and HAM work fine for killing cruisers.
Ranger 1 wrote: To be perfectly frank it's not that high a priority. It needs to be done, but the way these encounters usually play out is you don't switch missiles types in the middle of combat.
![Shocked](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png) I refuse to believe you two are serious. Have fun trolling.
I'm always serious ![Shocked](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
671
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 01:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kara Trix wrote:This is a terrible idea and you are destroying the use of these weapons.
They will not be used for PVE at all now. No one in there right mind will fit these again if it takes a year to reload them (40 seconds is very much a year in EVE combat)
I have several toons skilled for RLML as they were wonderful weapons for the following reasons.
1) They hold 80 Missiles (That is fantastic) and you are making them only hold 18.... (Unusable, as is they insta popped PVE frigs, why more damage?) 2) They reload quickly (like 10 seconds) which is fair.... now it's going to 40 seconds (Crazy)
Wow,,, talk about a total and complete fail.
If anything, make a RLML variant that is called something else (unless I am reading this wrong already).
You are effectively removing this weapon from PVE use period.... and they will unlikely be used for PVP as well, due to the reload times.
I am blown away by this news..... what a complete fail.
Did I say FAIL enough times.........wait..... FAIL.. there now I am going to reskill for the already failed HML...
Wow another perfectly formed argument based on fact and testing to prove how much the new system is going to broken! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
671
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 01:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vypri wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hi!
As you guys know, we're introducing Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers in Rubicon for battleships that will echo the Rapid Light Launchers in design. Well, now that the current design has been out and available for discussion for awhile, we've taken on a lot of feedback and we don't feel completely satisfied with them.
T2 Rapid Light Launchers can carry roughly 18 charges T2 Rapid Heavy Launchers can carry roughly 23 charges
Let me know what you think and keep in mind that numbers may be adjusted slightly as we continue to test. Thanks Guys, remember it takes a long time to skill for weapons, ships, etc. RLML were the only good thing about Missiles for PVP. They will no longer be used at all, so if the point was to remove them from game, looks like you're doing it the right way. Why not make every weapons reload time as stupid as this idea..... it's like you're putting a BS weapon on a cruiser now. I won't even comment on the charge capacity, since it's just another nail in the coffin. Better sell all those Caracals, Cerbs, quick.... otherwise they're just good for scrap reprocessing now.
Meh indicidual weapons systems upt medium spec don't take that long in reality with a decently foccussed skill plan etc.
And once again another perfectly formed argument based on facts and a touch of whine at all here. ![Shocked](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
680
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 20:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Garv mate I'd stop trying to educate closed minded bad players. They cannot comprehend the simple truth of what you are describing to them.
Just stick the ear plugs in mate and ignore their whining. ![Lol](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_lol.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
![Taoist Dragon Taoist Dragon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90373463/portrait?size=64)
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
681
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 00:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote: I must assume that by "If you know how" you mean if you have them at 20-30 km away from you and you're using scorch.
Because even with dual webs a zealot cannot track a close orbiting KESTREL, let alone a fast frig.
Are you sure? According to EFT you can do it in scram / web range using INM crystals (0.1 tracking) and somewhere between 9 and 10 km your applied damage should be about 80%. EFT aside, I remember doing it while testing things on numerous occasions but at the moment I cannot confirm EFT numbers with certainty. EDIT: If you overheat your web and with flying to negate transversal at 11 km (where INM optimal ends) you could be able to do near full damage to afterburner fitted Merlin. Sadly, I'm unable to repeat the same fighting simulation these days so I can't tell what correct numbers are. ... What? Negate transversal.. on a frigate.. while scrammed and webbed in a cruiser? 10 km? why would a frig stay at that range with you? what? wha? I'm out, I'm ooout.
Told you mate. Don't bother trying people don't care. Just go kill them when they think they can kick your arse and collect their tears when you drop them ![Twisted](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_twisted.png) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
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